Posts by jonathan dough

It's hard to tell who you are talking to or what specific issue you address. You just submit a big heap. I sure hope you aren't calling Christendom a sect. Here's a question: Why is it the JWs can use "logic" to prove their point, but when others use it to disprove them they are blind members of a sect? Why the double standard?

http://144000.110mb.com/607/index.html#C

40

I find it illogical for people to believe in "Religion"

by sinis in

i just don't understand.

i was raised a jw, believed the whole line of bullshit, hook, line, and sinker.

after leaving i still believed in the bible.

jonathan dough

Whatever you do, don't make the mistake of turning your back on Scripture like the ex-JW atheists and God-haters on this site have done;

Not all atheists are ex-JWs. They consist of people of all different faiths, why should JWs be any differen't.

I never said that all atheists are ex-JWs, but the principle is the same. If you were a Methodist and turned atheist you're in the same sinking boat.

you probably have been brainwashed to believe that Christendom is the work of Satan. It's not. You probably think the Trinity is the work of the devil. It's not. You have just been mislead to believe that.

You are making a lot of assumptions about what ex-JWs believe, what our reasons were for being JWs, and what our reasons were for leaving. Believe it or not, the trinity is not the central issue in many of our lives, or an issue at all, for that matter.

First, I don't think you are in a position to speak for most JWs if that's what's your claiming. Secondly, the Trinity is one of the core reasons why JWs stay out of Christendom; you can't deny that with a straight face. Third, nothing I said addressed the issue of what your "reasons for being JWs" were but rather the reasons for staying out of Christendom and rejecting Scripture in its entirty. In their minds the doctrine of the Trinity is an insurmoutable obstacle. I speak from experience. The WT literature is filled with explicit references to the Trinity and Christendom being the work of the devil. Maybe you weren't paying attention during the second hour on Sundays, and Tuesday and Thursday nights.

The biggest mistake you can do is pretend that the Bible is not the word of God, and thereby do your own thing as you see fit.

Another arrogant presumption. You are assuming people who no longer believe the bible is god's word aren't really firm in their convictions, but rather simply want an excuse to live a debauched life without guilt.

It was an admonition, not a presumption. It's obvious that many of you atheists and God-haters have strong convictions, but that strength doesn't translate into truth. Hitler had strong convictions. And yes, many do want an excuse to live a debauched life without guilt; I couldn't have said it better. Demons are running rampant on this board. Ex-jw atheists and God-haters were gullible enough to join in the first place, or if they were born in, gullible enough to stay in after the age of 18, and after they get out they display the same gullibility in the opposite direction, reflecting dangerous instability.

http://144000.110mb.com/607/index.html

101

Who was the God of Abraham?

by cameo-d in

any takers?.

jonathan dough

continued ....

And Hebrews 6:23 cannot mean that all men are punished with death for their sins. This too is taken out of context because Jesus said “… whoever hears my word and believes in the one who sent me has eternal life and will not come to condemnation but has passed from death to life” (John 5:24). The wages of sin, death, is not everyone’s punishment or reward.

21 What, then, was the fruit that YOU used to have at that time? Things of which YOU are now ashamed. For the end of those things is death. 22 However, now, because YOU were set free from sin but became slaves to God, YOU are having YOUR fruit in the way of holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23 For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord. (Rom. 6:21-23 NWT)

The Christian path leads to eternal life even though one dies physically, with one limited exception at 1 Corinthians 15:51,52. For others there is spiritual death followed by physical death and judgment; nothing here even remotely suggests that they will not be judged on judgment day for deeds committed in this life.

http://144000.110mb.com/144000/i-4.html#V

101

Who was the God of Abraham?

by cameo-d in

any takers?.

jonathan dough

We pay for our sins with our death,

Wrong. False JW teaching.

Had these discussions of Romans 6:7 and Romans 6:23 been placed side-by-side the contradiction would have been self-evident to them. The way the Jehovah’s Witnesses use these verses they are mutually exclusive. If one is acquitted of sin he is declared not guilty and avoids punishment. As such he would not then be punished with death, the wages of sin. Furthermore, it is curious why they apply Romans 6:7 (“for he who has died has been acquitted from [his] sin”) to the resurrected unrighteous when the entire paragraph and the next is directed to only the so-called 144,000 who alone are supposedly baptized into Christ’s death (Rom. 6:1-11).

That aside, the Greek word dikaioo means ‘acquittal’ (NWT) or ‘absolved’ (NAB) ‘justified’ (Green’s Literal), or primarily ‘deemed to be right’ (Vine’s, 69). But if you look closely at its use in Romans 6:7 you will notice that the Jehovah’s Witnesses have plucked it out of context and fail to understand the unambiguous meaning of Paul’s discourse. He was referring to a spiritual death to sin for the Christian believer, not the physical, mortal death of all men.

Paul is defending “the gospel against the charge that it promotes moral laxity” (NAB note 6, 1-11). He refers to having ‘died to sin,’ and that those baptized were baptized into Christ’s death and buried with him. The symbolic death leads to life with Christ. And true believers must think of themselves as being dead to sin. Nothing in those verses can be interpreted to imply a physical death, or that all evil people are acquitted of their sins at death because Paul made it very clear that “…it is reserved for men to die once for all time and after this a judgment” (Heb. 9:27 NWT). The Jehovah’s Witnesses’ misinterpretation would actually encourage moral laxity.

Furthermore, Christ died only once for sin and will never again return to die for forgiveness of sin so the resurrected sinful billions could never obtain the benefit of his sacrifice which he made under the so-called expired New Covenant (Romans 6:10). Christ died once (Heb. 9:27,28).

http://144000.110mb.com/144000/i-4.html#V

40

I find it illogical for people to believe in "Religion"

by sinis in

i just don't understand.

i was raised a jw, believed the whole line of bullshit, hook, line, and sinker.

after leaving i still believed in the bible.

jonathan dough

29 Jesus said, "So, you believe because you've seen with your own eyes. Even better blessings are in store for those who believe without seeing."

30 -31 Jesus provided far more God-revealing signs than are written down in this book. These are written down so you will believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and in the act of believing, have real and eternal life in the way he personally revealed it. MSG

Sylvia

---------------------------------------

You're ignoring the nature of the hypostatic union that is Christ and all of the proof texts that Jesus was, and is, God. He is fully God and fully man. You must read verse in light of all Scripture touching on the subject.

http://144000.110mb.com/trinity/index.html#5

40

I find it illogical for people to believe in "Religion"

by sinis in

i just don't understand.

i was raised a jw, believed the whole line of bullshit, hook, line, and sinker.

after leaving i still believed in the bible.

jonathan dough

Just out? Whatever you do, don't make the mistake of turning your back on Scripture like the ex-JW atheists and God-haters on this site have done; they are just Satan's minions and offer very little in the long run. The biggest mistake you can do is pretend that the Bible is not the word of God, and thereby do your own thing as you see fit. It's understandable that the JWs have poisoned you to the truth as represented in the Bible, but that is their version, their error, and that's based on their NWT Bible, which is no real Bible at all. If you have been in for very long, you probably have been brainwashed to believe that Christendom is the work of Satan. It's not. You probably think the Trinity is the work of the devil. It's not. You have just been mislead to believe that.

Don't turn your back on Him and deny Him. Do not be anti-Christ. Don't swing from one ridiculous extreme to another more ridiculous extreme. From the Almighty's perspective you are better off in the cult and believing in Him than denying Him. I don't need to tell you the risks involved. Plenty of good protestants and catholics out there. Some of them are preaching on the radio.
http://144000.110mb.com/index.html

50

OT God YHWH versus Jesus' Father

by Mad Sweeney in

i'm starting to think they're not the same being.

thoughts?.

jonathan dough

but the HS is also Jesus's HS, I forget which passage from Paul says that, sorry.

Romans 8:9-11 and 2 Cor 3:17

http://144000.110mb.com/144000/i-2.html#IV

34

So Everything Was Going Good Until...

by tryingtoexit in

jw
friends

i drew a blank on a particular question.

i basically had a talk with my parents over the weekend.

they've been jw's since the 50's and pops been an elder since 83. so i knew it was gonna be hard, but i basically told them to their face that i am no longer going to be a jw and gave a few reasons why.

jonathan dough

3. - First, I think you have to conclusively, irrefutably, prove that Jesus was A) a real person, and B) who he said he was, for #3 to even be accurate and plausible.

Does science have to prove how a dead person can be resurrected before I'm allowed to believe that God can do it?

http://144000.110mb.com/trinity/index.html